A critique of Pride
This note was posted by the reader Neel in response to the report of a homophobic incident the night after Bengaluru Pride. While these points do not reflect the opinions of Orinam.net, the editors think the issues brought up are significant enough to invite feedback from our readership.
This unfortunate incident just reveals the latent homophobia in society, something which we can choose to ignore at our own peril. Anyone with an ear to the ground will be aware of how exactly gay people are perceived by the rest of our society.
In life, perceptions can count more than facts. You may see yourself as a liberated spirit; society may see you as a lustful pedophile busily engaged in converting young boys to “your filthy gay lifestyle”. This is especially reinforced by the gay community’s unfortunate and reckless use of words like “pride”, “choice” and “lifestyle” when talking about themselves. We convey the impression that not only have we deliberately chosen this “filthy western lifestyle”, but we are even proud of it.
The general Indian public is very confused about what the gay community is, something that is further exacerbated by the range of people that come under the term “gay”.
Lack of any formal educational inputs regarding sex and sexuality leaves them ignorant and prejudiced. At the same time, various religions are aggressively pursuing their personal agendas by denouncing the gay community and promoting and provoking violence against them. And, our usage of words like “choice”, “pride” and “lifestyle” reinforces the public’s wrong perceptions about us and induces them to accept the lies told to them by their religious leaders. That’s the power of words.
If you look at a problem of motion of a physical body in physics, you would plot all the various forces and counter forces and arrive at the net resulting force. That’s how we manage to send satellites and space explorers into space; by understanding and working with every force that will act on the object that we are sending out, all along its path. When we choose to ignore any of those forces, out of ignorance, out of arrogance, or simply because we cannot “accept” the existence of those forces, our satellites and space explorers will end up in quite different places from where they were intended to be.
The same applies to the forces in society. You may choose to ignore certain realities simply because you want to don’t accept their existence. But that does not make them disappear. They will act on you whether you like it or not.
Here’s a thought for you: It is logically a fallacy to talk about being proud of something that is not your personal achievement. For example, wouldn’t it sound ridiculous if you said, “I am proud to have 5 fingers on each hand”? Obviously so, since you did not create those fingers with your own effort, right?
The word “proud” AUTOMATICALLY implies that what you are talking about is your personal achievement. You will sound like a retard if you said you are proud that the sun sets in the west and not in the north. Yet, we people say we are “proud to be gay”. So, what does that AUTOMATICALLY imply? It implies that being gay is something we have attained or chosen ourselves. So, you cannot say in one breath that you were born gay and did not choose it, and in the next breath say that you are proud to be gay (and thereby directly imply that it was your personal choice).
At this point, kindly don’t give me your tired old explanations about Stonewall and all that. You can argue on the semantics of the usage with me till the cows come home. What you need to think about is: does all this explanation sell with the rest of society? Was it something you could have used with those guys at the Empire?
I said right at the outset that perceptions can count for more than facts. The truth is that we have chosen this word “pride” without even thinking about its implications; about the power of words. It is time to let go of this word.
Another question for you: when you say you are “proud to be gay”, are you also implying that you would have been “ashamed” if you had not been gay? Can you see how meaningless this usage of the word “proud” is? Stop aping the west mindlessly. Let THEM follow us for a change.
Then, while the gay community wants to tell the world that it is as “normal” as anyone else, for some reason it is too “shy” to actually demonstrate this in practice. Thus, the only time the general public sees the gay community as such is when gay people are marching through the streets in their annual parades, dressed up in freakish attire or in almost nothing, disrupting the traffic, banging drums to add to the already hellish noise pollution on the streets, carrying strange and provocative banners saying things like “Main gaandu hoon”, “Proud to be gay”, and so on. Other than this, the only real contact between the straight and the gay communities is when hijdas clad in sarees go about their business harassing and intimidating the public. As for “normal” gay men, they go about their day-to-day business while keeping their nature hidden, and the public does not even know that they are gay. So, when the public looks at these men, they just see “normal people”, not “gay people”.
That means, the public rarely gets to see men who openly call themselves gay and yet look and act “normal”. Why then are we surprised that the public sees us as decadent pedophiles who have deliberately chosen “filthy western lifestyles”? Isn’t that the perception that we are ourselves creating about ourselves?
Here’s a question for you: HOW OFTEN DOES THE GAY COMMUNITY MARCH THROUGH THE STREETS IN AN ORDERLY MANNER, WEARING “RESPECTABLE CLOTHES” AND CARRYING RESPECTABLE-SOUNDING MESSAGES?
NEVER; right?
Why not?
Why does EVERY SINGLE GAY PARADE have to be a display of freakish attires, crude messages and boisterous behavior hardly likely to command respect? Why are we only TELLING people that we are “as normal as anyone else”? Why not SHOW it to them? Is that too much to ask?
What we need to work on is changing the perception of the general public regarding the gay community.
Here’s what I’d like to see in a gay parade: I’d like to see gay people DRESSED NEATLY in NORMAL clothing–which could include anything from business suits to your own traditional attires–walking quietly together through the streets in an orderly and dignified manner, without being accompanied by raucous banging of drums (something that is normally associated with some communities carrying dead bodies to the cremation ground), without disrupting the traffic; handing out leaflets and messages to the general public with a smile, and treating every such interaction with the general public as an opportunity to change their attitude towards the gay community by acting “as straight as they are”. I think I would be happy to be part of such a parade.
In my opinion, the current parades only serve to reinforce the low opinion that the general public has about the gay community. I want no part of that, and have never marched in one of these whether in India or outside.
What would you say about a person who keeps feeding sugar to a diabetic and then wonders why the patient does not recover and whether he needs to be fed even more sugar?
![[podcast] Colours of Pride: A Talk on Gender, Sex and Sexuality](https://orinam.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/rYMS-panel-768x433.jpg)
What a breath of fresh air.
Every point made is irrefutable.
I totally agree; time for us to grow up and see that mindlessly aping the West. Gay Pride Parades got to be freakish display of everything but ‘normal’ because it was drag queens that knocked the stuffing out of the New York Police Department (NYPD) in the event we call Stonewall.
We should either go knock the stuffing out of Police harassment or grow up and display our ‘normality’. How much of the freak show attire is actually worn by gay people to work? If you have a halfway decent job and wouldn’t wear it to work, DON’T wear if for a gay parade, dear!
This is my tuppence worth.
Ranjan (Sri Lanka, Britain and US)
This is a very well thought out article. Kudos to both the writer and Orinam for sharing this. That said, let me start by stating my assumption, I believe ‘gay’ is being used in a common sense for all Q communities here in this article. I am not sure how pompous the Pride festivities are in India. But given we Indians create quite a hoopla about any celebration- may it be winning an election, or wining a cricket championship or the pride parade, I don’t see why we should limit ourselves to being “normal” as the writer suggest. We have every right to celebrate our existence with fanfare. So a little bit of music and dancing within the established street mores should be okay. I am against destruction of property or public nuisance of any way. But I think every community and every individual has the right to showcase their opinions in a democracy. So I don’t completely agree with the writer’s assessment of looking “normal” even though I support Neel’s idea of looking inwards to figure out a way to promote a positive image about ourselves and the community.
One thing I don’t agree with the writer is the use of “Pride”. I don’t agree that this would mean “we are making a choice”. For a lot of Q folks, coming out and living an open life is like a second coming. So there is some source of “pride” in having turned shunned the internalized phobias(trans-, homo-, xeno- whatever it may be) that we carried since childhood, surviving the bullying some of us face, fighting the oppression and discrimination at work, family etc…. While “lifestyle” is a dubious word and could be used against us, I think “pride” is an appropriate word. How often do we say, “I am proud of my parents or children” or “I am proud of my country”. I have never heard a case where this could be an option for an individual to choose – may be the country in special circumstances but never the parents. The usage of “pride” here is a general reflection of the individual’s view to how things have turned out for ourselves. I don’t agree that it adds any meaning “automatically”.
This is a great post and it is very important everyone discusses this in the open. Let’s agree to disagree, but with dignity and mutual respect for each other.
I have to say though some of the views in this post are transphobic and some expresses the author’s need to conform to the society, it does raise some valid questions!
As of now, Pride parades are the only queer event in India that gets attention from the media. So I agree with the author that they are one of the very few ways for the queer community to interact with the mainstream society. And what the public sees in such parades, must be too much for them to handle, especially since Indian society is very conservative, we are not used to PDAs, outrageous (that doesn’t mean they are unacceptable) outfits etc..
In the west, if a straight person sees outrageous costumes on a pride parade, they also get to see same-sex couples, families, friends, coworkers in their daily lives that balances their views on the community. In India, not many are out, so all the mainstream society sees is the people in Pride parades having fun and being silly.
That doesn’t mean we have to stop celebrating who we are, but I think we all need to be more out and proud in our daily lives too and create OTHER opportunities to interact with the general public, so they get a diverse view of who we are and what we stand for. As of now, there is a danger of us being perceived in the way the author mentioned.
Regarding the word “Pride” and “Being Proud” I agree with Rashmi’s comments.
Talking of ‘pride’, it could be a life saver. A few years ago, I happened spend some significant time in Mumbai (Bombay then) for my higher studies. The way I was discriminated for being from Tamilnadu was more shocking and traumatic than any gay issues I had in my life. I was mocked because my state was (and is) not accepting Hindi, for the politics and corruption that happen in my state (as if it does not happen elsewhere in India), bad movies, bad music (they somehow missed all the good ones), the food we eat (rice was considered inferior to roti) and the dark color of my skin (strangely, nobody has even heard of raman, ramanujan or chandrasekar).
I was so depressed, hopeless, helpless and I really started thinking I was from indeed an inferior clan. I was so emotionally broken. Retrospecting, I feel that a sense of pride (which I have now) would have helped me. What was worse? – their derision? Or my reaction? Pride is an effective defense mechanism for one to live. If you see the level at which pride works in the way I am talking about, the author’s pride-choice paradox should not matter. It is about accepting yourself (a trait or interest you acquired by choice or chance) and display to the rest of the world that it does not matter what they think about you, convey them the message that you have complete acceptance of it.
The author seems very fond of applying logical principles to social behavior. I have seen just too many exceptions for it. Of all things, I never thought the nation would fall in love with a crude tamil folk song, but see what happened to kolaveri. This is the first regional song that was aired on national radios on all regions by popular demand. If the composers thought the song should sound like north indian music or international music, not only that we would not have had a chance to display our colors, we would have fared worse in comparison to the music we are trying to compete with. Or for that matter, take ‘silk’. She was a bold maverick of those times. The whole world stood against her, but she did what she did. Today, I could see families watching her biopic movie and discussing about it with a mention of olala.
If we start being pushed around by views of ignorant and prejudiced people, we are going nowhere, not even help changing the very ignorance and prejudice we are fighting against. Do you think, that homophobic incident would not have happened if we marched in order, neatly dressed. Even today, violent attacks happen on people who attempt inter-caste marriages and it is not because they did a pompous parade. What about those oppose the celebration of valentine’s day, who beat up women because in their viewpoint, pr the women who are dressed obscene, according to them. While we can make adjustments not to shock the existing moralities, we cannot start defining our ways based on them. While we have pompous prides, we are also going to have parents marching with them, gay marriages, gay couples with kids, openly gay celebrities and important people, gay matrimonial, quality gay movies and books, gay festivities, gay professional societies – all working at their levels to change the views of the rest of the society. Who knows, if we take this liberal way right from the beginning, it could motivate the non-gay population as well to open their minds. Imagine, being gay, being accepted and gay marriages being controlled by the family, horoscopes and dowry. I don’t want us to end up there. Btw, you cant apply dynamics of rockets to dynamics of society. It is way more complicated and at the same time more fluid and you cannot put a law on how it works.
All the “normal” gay people wear “decent” clothing, carry “respectable” messages, and walk in a “dignified” manner. This sounds like a great idea – but only if this is group is a subsection of the larger gay parade group. While it would be great to have a group represent the “normal” conforming people at a parade, they represent only a section of the lgbtq community. Enforcing one particular group’s viewpoint (conforming, non conforming or somewhere in between) on the extremely diverse lgtbq community is as unrealistic as expecting unbalanced forces to create a state of equilibrium (since we are all getting sciency in here, now I am just trying to conform).
P.S.: Ok, perceptions do matter. But if it was the only thing that mattered, all of us would still be hiding – in very dark closets!
While the author makes some valid points, the article largely is a rant possibly trying to hide his/her own anguish at being gay and having to identify with a community that is NOT normal, decent, conforming to society’s fabric, etc.
Yes, the article is persuasive and well-argued. But it misses the woods for the trees. Nitpicking is what it seems to be doing. It does no service to the gay identity. I doubt if the people who were harassed at the Empire Restaurant were in drag for the author to draw (whatever) conclusions.
Let’s also look at the arguments.
1. Gays are seen as pedophiles: This is a very biased, untrue statement. Most pedophiles that the Indian society would know of would be straight men who would’ve tried to take advantage of the young girls. This is largely shushed away, hidden carefully for the sake of ‘respect’ and the ‘safety of the girl’. Unfortunate but true. Yes, there are pedophiles within the gay community too but this generalisation the author indicates is NOT the public perception that I am aware of.
2. All that the society sees us is in outlandish clothing etc: This is transphobic, and also draws heavily on social/moral policing to make people ‘fall in line’. There is NO mention of ‘let’s gain one thing at one time; we would reach the point when we’re able to be free enough to be cross-dressing/boisterous” or whatever. It’s just finger-pointing that we are NOT blending in. Everyday through the year, even those who were at Pride March in drag, would be trying their best to blend in, conform and be ‘normal’ as the author desires. And, one day they’re out in the open in attires that would make them happy and all the author has to say is ‘This is NOT on’. If a gay man/woman says this, obviously we can’t expect the rest of the society to accept us the way we are. It’s time we rid ourselves of our biases before we talk of the society at large.
I appreciate Neel making bold to share his views. My observations are as follows:
The Pride being expressed is not Pride at being gay (or LBTQ). It is pride at having braved ridicule, harassment and violence from a society that is largely prejudiced against non-heterosexual gender-normative people, and pride at having taken the huge step of disclosing this vital aspect of one’s being to oneself and one’s loved ones.
The ability to be ‘normal’ looking and behaving is itself a luxury not available to all of us. Yes we may wish some gay guys would tone down what is perceived as ‘over the top’ campiness. But what about those men for whom femininity is not a conscious performance, those women for whom masculinity is not something they carefully constructed and refined to make a political statement, but something that is as intrinsic to their being as your homosexuality is to yours?
Your insistence on getting others conform to your ideal of sexuality and gender presentation is, sadly, not that different from the thinking that makes fathers taunt their own sons for being too feminine, send their lesbian daughters to psychiatric hospitals in attempts to make them straight; that gets transgender and genderqueer children teased, beat up and worse by their peers and adults alike.
If you’ve observed Pride marches in Indian cities, you will see not only the flamboyantly attired, the hijras and kothis and twinks twirling rainbow batons, but also gay bhadralok in starched kurta-dhoti singing Rabindra Sangeet on themes that resonate with most Bengalis at Kolkata Pride, sari-clad Madras maamis marching in support of their sons and daughters on the Marina, devout Sunday-church-going Christians who have overcome their prejudice and have showed up in the dozens because their favorite colleague is gay and participating in Bengaluru Pride, the walking-stick-bearing septuagenarian who has, for the first time in his entire life, found himself in the company of people living and breathing the sexuality that he discovered many decades ago and kept carefully suppressed over half a century, enduring all the snide remarks and disdain-disguised-as-pity about his nitya brahmachari status at every family function…
Respectable middle class gay people are only one subset of the LGBT spectrum. Sure, if a contingent of straight-acting gay men in grey business-formal attire wishes to march in mournful silence interrupted only by the pings of mails and tweets sent from handheld devices, so be it.
But if you feel uncomfortable marching in solidarity with other groups for even this one day a year, perhaps you should avoid Pride entirely, and adopt alternative strategies for asserting your identity to those that matter in your life.
There is nothing wrong in having pride marches. After all that is being affirmed is that gays are not ashamed of their sexual orientation. And a little bit of song and dance too is ok. Even in straight marraiges, don’t we have music, and don’t the bride and groom wear elaborate costumes?
Neel’s post raised a storm in my head. Trying to settle down my responses and type them in order.
Read Anis’ response at https://new2.orinam.net/a-critique-of-pride-more-responses/
All Neel needs is some counselling and perhaps some time, to grow up. To the writer : start with Kinsey3’s comment above.
I have a question – would Indian society accept two “straight-looking” well dressed dignified men holding hands (if they weren’t young)? Would Indian society accept them kissing each other – if not on the lips, on the cheek? Would it be OK for two well-dressed well behaved men or women to hold a placard saying – “We are in love”? How about a sign that said “We provide each other sexual gratification”?
At some level, we have to communicate the idea – the concept that two people of the same gender can be in love and can wish to live together or may like to please each other sexually. Gay men and women who are “straight-acting” and single, celibate and aren’t dating are usually accepted and tolerated – but then, they are also routinely subjected to pressure to marry – to procreate – to preserve the family name, the family honor and so on….
The whole purpose of the Pride Marches is to create awareness and acceptance of what is NOT accepted – and to create a space for those who aren’t routinely tolerated and accepted.
Its not the packaging alone that causes acceptance or leads to rejection – it is as much about the acceptance that a same-gender relationship is also legitimate – that gender roles can vary and may be fluid – that there isn’t only one way to exist and be respectable.
That everyone has a right to personal happiness….
This is not to say that Pride Marches are achieving their purpose – but that we should first be clear what the community as a whole is struggling for….obviously – as individuals we may have different goals – but we should be quite clear about one thing – we all face challenges.
The young gay man who looks straight and respectable is fine – but can he take a holiday with his boyfriend and share that with his co-workers – with other straight friends – with relatives? What happens if he and his boyfriend wish to buy a house together? What happens when they turn 50? What happens if the relationship falls apart and he feels like death – where does he turn to for support and understanding?
The straight-acting “respectable” gay men can also end up a very lonely and desperate gay man if he falsely assumes that its just a matter of packaging to gain “respectability”.
Often, the gay men who are most obsessed with being accepted by straight society end up all alone – because people like them are so invisible – they don’t even spot each other.
So yes – lets try to communicate with others more effectively – lets do our best to show ourselves as multi-dimensional socially caring, responsible human beings who can make valuable and worthwhile contributions to society.
But lets not entirely lose track of who we are, and what we need; and also that we are very diverse. Personally – I am very conservative – but should I be imposing my conservative attitude and manner on those around me?
I think we need to be respectful towards each other – and try and understand each other – and then perhaps, we will also find better ways of making the larger world accept us and understand us…
I revisited this page after a long hiatus. It seems to me that some people who responded to my (original) post didn’t quite get my point. (Glad to see that Ranjan did, though.)
First of all, let me clarify that I admire deeply both the organisers and the participants at these events, who show the courage of conviction to speak up against the injustices to the gay community. We certainly need as many people as possible to speak up for us/ourselves. I have no issues with that.
What I am saying is that there could be a big gap between what we wish to communicate and what actually gets communicated. Anybody who has any idea of marketing will understand the significance of this point. “Does the target audience get your message in the way you would like them to get your message?”
Multinational companies have faced this problem. There are interesting anecdotes of some product names that just happen to have some obscene meanings in certain countries. What do those companies do? They would change the product name used in that country, of course, or even withdraw the product from that country. They would take into account the perception by the target audience, and make changes accordingly. They wouldn’t simply put an asterisk against the “obscene” name and then deliver mile-long explanations for the so-called “real meaning”, would they? But, I’m sorry to say, this is more or less what “Kinsey” here is doing.
“Kinsey” said, “The Pride being expressed is not Pride at being gay (or LBTQ)”.
A very commonly used expression at gay gatherings is “proud to be gay”. This directly contradicts what you have asserted.
If, as you claim, this “pride” were supposed to refer to all the ridicule and violence endured by the gay community, it should make that clear: “Proud to survive”; “Proud to spread love”, “Proud survivors of your mindless hatred”, “Proud to be civilised”, “Proud not to lash back at your hatred and bigotry”, “Proud to reciprocate your hatred with love”, and so forth. But, when you keep chanting, “proud to be gay”, the receiver of that message understands that being gay was your personal choice.
Are you going to stand on the roadside and explain to everyone, “No, man, we don’t really mean we are proud to be gay, man. You see, we got bashed up many times, and we are proud that we survived, man”. Sorry, pal, but your target audience would have moved on, muttering to themselves, “filthy jokers, actually boasting about their filthy lifestyles…”
I feel sorry that some people in the gay community just don’t get this simple point. Somebody here even accuses me of being “too logical”. Really? Would you prefer some sentimental, feel-good mush instead?
Ideally, the way to resolve this would be through conducting a survey with the target audience, through a questionnaire. “When we say we are ‘proud to be gay’, how do you understand it?”, and so on.
“How they understand it” matters more than what you wanted to mean by it. It is really a pity that I need to repeat this point in so many different ways.
Rashmi said–with reference to the usage of the word “pride”: How often do we say, “I am proud of my parents or children” or “I am proud of my country”.
Rashmi, talking of parents, what are you proud of? Their looks? Their age? I believe you are referring to their achievements, their triumphs over adversities, etc., right? If some people happened to be goodlooking and wealthy but were also serial murderers, would their children say they were “proud of their parents”? So, it comes down to achievements, not the qualities they were born with and had no control over, right?
The same with country. You may be proud to belong to a country that has given the world lofty philosophies, given the world the path of ahimsa and non-violence, etc.; again, it’s all about achievement, even if those achievements were not personally yours. But, if you said “I’m proud of my country because it has the best location on the planet”, wouldn’t that sound silly? You had nothing to do with its location, right? And, if someone from a country filled with violence claimed to be proud of his country, you would look at him strangely, wondering what he had to be proud of, right?
At another level, to say you are proud of your country is really a sentimental, feel-good expression that means nothing whatsoever. It comes from ego. It is a “we are better than you” attitude. You meet someone from another country, and each wants to boast that his country is the best. Just as, when we were kids we used to boast, “my daddy is stronger than yours”, etc. This faux patriotism is encouraged by politicians who want to make you think that there is some external enemy threatening you, in order to attention away from these politicians. Which is why, even as we Indians mouth these empty platitudes, we continue to pollute and litter our country and to break all our own rules. But, let me add, we are not the worst offenders in this. A certain “friendly neighbouring country” would beat us hands down at this game.
Finally, have you heard the (cynical) expression, “borrowed glory”? Some people often claim to be proud of something or the other because of their subconscious desire to take credit for something that is not their achievement. So, when a well-known cricketer hits a century, they seek to take undeserved credit by claiming to be “proud of him”. The attitude behind this is: “Hey, he is ONE OF US, you know, so we are better than you. It is just as if WE hit the century.” Such people are living on “borrowed glory” when they claim to be proud of having invented the zero, having invented yoga, etc. Somebody else did these things thousands of years ago, but these people want to take the credit for themselves.
Shishir (and Vijay) the key word in my post was “ONLY”. Perhaps you missed that. My question was, why do we always present ONLY this face? Still don’t get it? Okay: if you conduct one hundred parades, why not try showing a different face in JUST ONE of those? Why do all one hundred of those parades have to make mothers cover their children’s eyes as they pass by?
I detect hypocrisy here. Let’s consider two separate strangers approaching you on the street with a question. One of them is dressed neatly and well groomed, and speaks well. The other man is shabbily dressed, looks unwashed and unkempt, and speaks some broken language. I am willing to bet that you will attach more credibility to the first of these two people, and will look suspiciously at the other. Don’t we all attach more credibility to people who present themselves nicely? And yet, by some miracle, you expect people to respect and understand you however you present yourself to them. Double standards?
Just once out of one hundred parades–I repeat, just once–wear your best clothes, groom yourselves well, and show a different face. Present yourselves like guests at a royal wedding on just ONE out of ONE HUNDRED marches. Get people to actually turn their heads and look at you with interest and empathy. Too much to ask? Mission impossible?